who is this about?

[spitfire1979]

i was going through some of the links on this site and ended up finding this:

 

Code:

http://members.tripod.com/kendra145/index.html

... but the link to the site she's referring to is broken.

after reading it i got a picture of one of those overly "concerned" gothardites bawling her eyes out over another person's exercise of free will, completely confused over a choice she can't fathom.

i never went to indy, but i can only imagine i'd have been assigned a "mentor" who would have freaked out, too.  

[Independent Guy]

Ahhh... the wonder that is the "Wayback Machine"...

http://web.archive.org/web/20021008234010/http://members.tripod.com/Glenwood37/homepage.htm

You can see the history of the page here...

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://members.tripod.com/Glenwood37/homepage.htm

[spitfire1979]

hey!  where is everyone?!  fall slump?
the link IG  referenced in this thread led to more info... the poster wrote a few side articles recounting her experiences with other infamous ATI practices, including arranged marriage.

she writes that she heard gothard make this statement about the father/daughter relationship:
   
 "Two young people get married, they have a few kids, then they become an ATI family.  Their family continues to grow.  All of the kids are homeschooled largely by the mother, in addition, the mother is doing all the cooking and housework, and she begins to get worn out by the entire ordeal.  She can no longer be her teenage self.  Then, all of a sudden, the father notices that he now has a beautiful teenage daughter, who is the perfect image of her mother. She is respectful and obedient, and has a radiant smile.   He can't help but be attracted to her.  The problems all start when the mother notices this going on between her husband and daughter, and she becomes jealous.  This is why we need to begin training our mothers on the detrimental effects of jealousy."


WHAT!!! does ANYBODY else have knowledge to back this up? maybe i was just priviledged to have an educated father who was more righteous than some in ati but is this true?!  in a very, very sick way, and maybe because of my immersion in Child Welfare, I can see the tie between paternal control and sexual abuse but has it been common in ATI?  

please don't think i'm trying to be sensational or to drudge up difficult dialog for site members.  this statement is just too shocking to leave alone.  

[Been There]

I actually do remember something like this being said at one point. I think it was at some counseling seminar or something like that. I don't know why Gothard would have said such a thing, but I do remember it.  I also remember how sick I thought it was that he encouraged the fathers to give their daughters the little promise rings to "engage" themselves to their fathers until marriage.  This actually did happen.,,,

[encourager]

I can understand somewhat of the jealousy part. I don't know if it is all sexual or just a father who is just wanting to be overly protective. I do think the whole thing about the promise ring is a little crazy. The thing of it is, you don't see this kind of ritual being practiced in the norm of Chirstian society. It is just one of those things that is unique to the crowd that promote emotional purity. I think this goes beyond an average father being concerned about whom his daughter marries. I believe it starts to turn into paranoia and fear. Yes, there maybe sexual feelings on the part of the father. I don't know if in all cases it would turn into sexual abuse, but I wouldn't be surprised if that kind of thing would happen.

[Been There]

I don't understand or approve of what Gothard said about the jealousy part.  I remember listening to him ramble about this problem of the father getting attracted to his daughter and thought that maybe he would start talking about incest or something.  I also remember being mentally jarred by his conclusion that the entire scenario is the mother's fault because she is jealous.  In this ramble, Gothard never implied that there was anything weird or wrong about the father's attraction to his daughter.

I don't know if he meant to, but he theoretically condoned incest, or at least mental incest.

But, you know what, sometimes Gothard really doesn't get enough sleep, and then he gets talking and doesn't make any sense.  I think he forgets a lot of what he says because of sleep deprivation.

[Anonymous]

I realize this is an old post... but, if only for my own sake, and only anonymously... I wanted to reply.  It needs to be said.  Be warned, below is a very, very heavy topic.  I will try to handle it with care.

I grew up in ATI. Back when Knoxville was a yearly Mecca for all of us members, back in the 90's and stuff.  And... I keep typing and deleting and typing again, but the best way to say this is just to say it: my father was sexually abusive.  I lived every day in terror of him, and my little girl self didn't know how to say it or even what was happening really, and the best I could say to my mom was "I'm scared of Daddy - really, really scared". She told me to sit and talk with him. I will never forget him telling me to point out his faults, a la Gothard's teachings (at least at the time), and simultaneously glaring at me with his death stare.  Beyond the sexual abuse, he would often scream and yell, or even slap me if I was out of sight of the others... I still am terrified that it might have happened to one or both of my sisters, and even more terrified of ever, ever telling them what happened to me. I am already the family scapegoat - they would just think I am lying and for all I know, disown me. So I just keep quiet, after all these years.

Being homeschooled was perfect for that kind of a dad. Being in ATI was even more perfect. He could sit me down and give me a Bible and tell me to read the verses about how fathers were supposed to stone their sons to death if they rebelled too much, if I p*ssed him off. He could make me call him "sir". He could rule with an iron fist over his entire family. And he did so. For years, I would just sort of look at the ground when asked to reflect upon my childhood, and say it was horrible. Now I have flashbacks, inability to be intimate... The whole nine yards.  I very, very rarely talk about it, it is an inky black blot on my childhood that I don't want to even exist, much less be discussed.

But for the sake of alerting others out there...it needs to be said.  Gothard's cult was perfect for my dad, and gave him a framework for all of his abuse. It put God on his side, put a Bible in his hands to back him up in any cruelty he wanted to inflict.

The only thing that stopped it was his death. He had a massive heart attack. When the doctor said "I'm sorry" (you know how they say that to inform you someone has died), I breathed a terrible kind of sigh of relief inside. And then I was sorry, because I had to fake sadness at the death of a human being, and wondered how incredibly cruel and evil I must be to feel like that.

All these years later, and I STILL feel so ashamed to say anything; STILL feel like no one in this whole world would believe me and I should just shut up...

But it needed to be said.

[Independent Guy]

Anonymous,

First of all, everyone here will believe you and many of us have, either direct or indirect exposure to what happens with this type of teaching.

Secondly, thank you for having the courage to share your story and the effects for your experience. It can't be easy to bring those memories back up.

While I certainly can't fully understand what you are (and have been) going through, the fallout of spiritual and sexual abuse can debilitate your spiritual and personal life. I'm not sure if you have sought counselling (Christian or other), but I would encourage that if you haven't. I really feel like that much emotional scaring has to be dealt with in a safe place with competent counsellor.

I know there is a stigma that goes along with going to one, but I can speak from personal experience that you can get through some serious issues with a counsellor. I went to a psychologist for a while, before I became a Christian, and it was a big help for the things I was dealing with. If you are a Christian, I'd recommend going to a licensed Christian Counsellor (http://aacc.net/ is a good place to start). I'd even call and see if they deal with ex-cult, and spiritual/sexual abuse. If you are not a Christian, try the APA locator (http://locator.apa.org/), to find a qualified psychologist.

I hope this helps.