Matthew Murray

[spong]

Hi everyone,

I am a new member and like many I found out about this site from news articles relating to Matthew Murray.  I think this site is going to be inundated with people like me who are inquisitive (i.e. nosey) and I though it prudent to have a thread relating to this issue.

From what I can gather, Matthew was a deeply troubled young man who seemed, in part, to blame Bill Gothard and the IBLP method of home schooling for many of his problems.  While I certainly don’t condone his actions, I also believe that God has a purpose for everything and that his actions may help to highlight problems within the contemporary church movement that desperately need to be addressed.

I have for some time been very concerned about the lack of accountability in churches and the power a single pastor can wield upon “his” (or what he thinks is his) congregation, completely unchecked by anyone.  All too often the pulpit has become nothing more than a place exercise the ego and other natural carnal tendencies.  Not to mention the commercialization of God at the expense of correct teaching.

From what I have read about IBLP it sound like the very kind of legalistic doctrine that the bible goes to great lengths to warn us about (read Galatians).  It is wrong!  We are not under ANY laws!  The bible makes it very clear that, as Christians, the Holy Spirit works within us and guides us via the Holy Spirit convicting our conscience directly.  There are no set rules. We are all at different levels of maturity and have different functions within the body of Christ and our convictions are personal and not corporate.

The bible goes to great lengths to warn us against, pride, ego, judgment, self righteousness and false teaching FAR more than anything else. Yet, these go almost unchecked in the modern fundamental evangelical church movement who like nothing more than to point fingers at others in order to boost there own sense of self righteousness.

May God bless the families of the victims and lay his hand of providence over this entire episode.

[JoeCapricorn]

I went to bed last night. There were 250 members.

I wake up... now there is 282... o_o;

[Boldtruth]

Why?Its the question everyone is asking in regaurds to the church shooting in Colorado why would a young man raised in a christian home gun down "christians"?
The answer because he had the devil in him,Its that symple he was possesed with a devil,I know because Ive been to pentacostal churches,And I can tell you they are only a few of many religious folks who create devils see them everywhere in everyone then wonder why those devils come out.And they call it God.

Not only do they create devils but they see humanbeings as born worthy of eternal hell fire and damnation unless those humanbeings come round to there way of thinking.And they dare not even question there religion and when it comes right down to it we are not suposed to question there religion eather.

Maybe we do have more religious freedom than islamic nations,And from my perspective islam is even worse,But christian exstreemists arent so far behind infact there not so far behind at all.

Any religion that creates devils and evil and despises the "disbeliever" so intensly that it damns them to eternal hell and calls it all God,Is an aspect of the anti-Christ in my opinion,Christian and islamic exstreemists have demonized me
and I wasnt suposed to so much as defend myself I wasnt suposed to question and yet inside I wondered why would God give me a mind to question,if I am  not to question?
Its odd for me for me I spent my whole life struggling with in myself wanting to save the world and even believing I was meant to,And determined to find the religous views that could help me ,afraid to question religion wanting to use it for good yet never really able to accept its evil,Confused and conflicted because I was always taught that my being un able and un willing to accept religions evil meant that I was evil which totally confused me and made everything seem backwords or upside down created so much conflict and choas within me I didnt know which way was up.Religion created a fear that flowed from fear to terror back to fear except when I could be "in denial"For me religion was like an abusive parent I need to tell my story for Mathews sake and for his victoms sake and all the would be Mathews.

It is time for us to seek wellness for our selves and one another wellness body mind and soul.

[Boldtruth]

Matthew Murray I  cried for you,I cried for you,because I understand and because I was abused when I was little and threw out my life,and sence I was a very small child I understood that the truest way to "destroy"the "boogieman" is to prevent the boogieman from becoming the boogieman in the first place I wanted to save the world in part by saving the boogieman befor he ever became the boogieman.

You see?Your the newest headline boogieman,and all I can think about is how much I wish I could have saved you befor you ever became the boogieman that you became,Your not the devil Matthew you never were,Your only a boy who was hurting and afraid inside even angry inside and dealing with it day after day trying to exsplain exspress understand,And being taught that it was the devil in you which caused you to feel that way  much of the world now sees you as the young monster man who went on a shooting rampage,But I dont I see you as a young man trapped in a nightmare from which he could not exscape so you chose the only exscape you knew how and you took others with you in your mind you were only destroying the nightmare that created the devil in you,But what you did was wrong Matthew it was so very wrong,And Im sorry nobody found away to save you befor it was to late.But I hope you know I wanted to,I spent my life wanting to

save people like you,because I understood,if you can find a way to save the boogieman befor he ever becomes the boogieman then you save all of his victoms too befor they ever become victoms,But sometimes people are to busy trying to destroy the boogieman and creating more so they can destroy them again to understand that.If there are souls within us all may yours be healed and find its peace at last and may you and your victoms forgive and be forgiven and reach a higher understanding of one another as you dwell in love and healing,May God grant that heaven might be braught forth out of the hell which humanity has created .Rest in peace.

[maze00]

Why aren't more people making a stand against Gothard?  

Does anyone have the stats of the people currently involved in this destructive religion?  

One thing we could all pray for is that God will intervene so that Gothard won't be able to hurt anymore people.

[Independent Guy]

maze00. I don't know that I would call Gothard and IBLP a "religion" or "cult" (though very close to the latter). I do believe that this unfortunate event will point the spot light on Gothard for a little while. We'll see what comes of it.

[Boldtruth]

I hate what Matthew did and always will those actions are unforgiveable but I do not believe Matthew was merely those wrong actions.I think humanbeings to often see other people or themselves as there actions,but there not.

If I had been there my greatest wish is that I could have loved his hurt away and made him all better,if I was not able to prevent violance I would hope I would have dropped him where he stood my own self if thats what had to be done,But not out of hatred for him,But out of love for his victoms and him,Because to me there are things worse than death,if he just slaughtered innocent people like that,living with that would be a fate worse than death to me.

But violance in my opinion is never the right answer sometimes there symply are no right answers and we are merely left to choose between wrong answers sort of like when we hold elections,often we only have wrong and wrong to choose from
how can there be a right choice if all the choices are wrong?

Thats why I say if I had been there and there was nothing else I could do,I would hope that I would have stopped Matthew even if it took brute force to do so.Because I believe when in doubt we should choose the path which best seems to serve the greater good,And if in action causes more harm than action,It is the in action which becomes the aggressor when your in a sitaution between preditor and prey and both the preditor and the prey are humanbeings and you are aware of what is going on,You side with the prey by attempting to defend them or you can side with the preditor by attempting to assist them in there attack or you can side with the preditor by doing nothing at all.

After all one of the greatest powers in the world is water and what has power over water?In action.A log a damn big things that sit there and dont move they do nothing they symply are they merely exsist and yet by there mere exsistance they control one of the greatest powers in the world.So you see?Sometimes the most powerful thing you can do good or bad is nothing at all.Because sometimes by doing nothing you do a  mighty big something.

[Boldtruth]

LOLOL My word came out like a cuss word but it wasnt I was refering to a DA** one of those big walls that hold back water .

[Independent Guy]

Oh ha ha. Then I think you mean the word "dam" not "d*mn".

[Boldtruth]

LOL whoops sorry about that LOL I cant spell good!

[Eliyahu Jones]

Is "why" still a question?  I'm pretty convienced that it's because he got cornholed at church... the same problem that Marylin Manson has, incidentally.