Is this true about Bill Gothard?

[Suzanne]

I thought I would order the book recommended by someone from a previous thread:

A Matter of Basic Principles: Bill Gothard & the Christian Life (Paperback

I ordered the book however I read this about someone who refuses to read the book as he is a personal friend of BG.  This is what he says about Bill:

Reviewer: Melody J. Rohlin "Seeking after Jesus--the Author and Finisher of the Faith, the Way, the Truth, and the Life." (Chicago, IL) - See all my reviews
     
I have not read the book, neither do I intend to. I have read the reviews however, and find myself wondering if all you critics out there have actually even met Mr. Gothard. I work with him and see him everyday. And, getting to know him on a personal level has given me a chance to see that he is a human being, howbeit a very special man--a man after God's own heart. My spriritual gift is that of Prophecy, and as such, I can discern character qualities and/or faults in a person. Being with Mr. Gothard on a daily basis has allowed me to see that he is a man of integrity--or in other words, a man whose "talk matches his walk." Mr. Gothard is a man of great spiritual insight and vision. When I look at his face, I can tell that he has been with God, for his face posesses the same glow described of Moses' face when he came down from the mountain after spending 40 days with God. My only prayer is that I can someday have the closeness to my Savior that Mr. Gothard has.

"The Lord has richly blessed my life through him, and the lives of many others. His life is an example of what the Lord can do through a person wholly committed to Him. While many people out there accuse IBLP of being a cult, I assure you that we are not. We are simply a group of sinful human beings seeking after our Savior with all our hearts. We strive to build up families and train them in the principles found in the Bible. I strongly urge you (the reader of this review) to not judge Mr. Gothard or his ministry without first testing everything he says against the Word of Scripture and getting to know him on a personal level. May the Lord Jesus Christ bless you with the ability to truly discern truth from un-truth, fact from fiction, and right from wrong. Despite all the criticism, Mr. Gothard has a love for each and every person who has displayed animosity towards him, and I know has freely forgiven them. He is truly a man after God's own heart."


I read from someone who is from one of the 102 orginal families and it appears her experience was not all that positive.  Do you think most of those from 102 now are away from their teachings or are their second and 3rd generations that are living this lifestyle that he promotes?

[ninth doctor]

You stated that you had the spiritual gift of prophecy and could discern character qualities and or faults in a person.Could you elaborate on how this is accomplished.I honestly have never heard this before.

[Anonymous]

     You stated that you had the spiritual gift of prophecy and could discern character qualities and or faults in a person.Could you elaborate on how this is accomplished.I honestly have never heard this before.

I do not have the gift of prophecy.  That was written by somone else.  I put a quote in about someone else who has the gift and wanted you all to comment on it.

[encourager]

The man Bill Gothard is not an evil tyrant by nature. He is a gentleman. The book, "A Matter of Basic Principles" mainly exposes the major doctrinal errors and heresy in his teachings. The book is not out to slam his character or his integrity. It is possible to have the right idea and go about it all wrong. This is what has been happening over the years with his ministry.
As far as the damage that has been caused by his minsitry, there is alot that goes on behind the scenes in many of his training centers and in other parts of his organization that is kept from the average person.
I know it sounds like many of us are angry with Mr. Gothard, but we are expressing the pain caused by the emotional damage caused by some of his extreme legalistic approach. We know that Mr. Gothard is not the enemy. It is possible that satan can use even the very elect to deceive and I believe this is what is happening.
I would agree with you that he does have a lot of wisdom and that is what makes it so hard to call his ministry a cult. The best thing to do is to continue to pray for the man.

[Suzanne]

The man Bill Gothard is not an evil tyrant by nature. He is a gentleman. The book, "A Matter of Basic Principles" mainly exposes the major doctrinal errors and heresy in his teachings. The book is not out to slam his character or his integrity. It is possible to have the right idea and go about it all wrong. This is what has been happening over the years with his ministry.
As far as the damage that has been caused by his minsitry, there is alot that goes on behind the scenes in many of his training centers and in other parts of his organization that is kept from the average person.
I know it sounds like many of us are angry with Mr. Gothard, but we are expressing the pain caused by the emotional damage caused by some of his extreme legalistic approach. We know that Mr. Gothard is not the enemy. It is possible that satan can use even the very elect to deceive and I believe this is what is happening.
I would agree with you that he does have a lot of wisdom and that is what makes it so hard to call his ministry a cult. The best thing to do is to continue to pray for the man.

AS I have shared over 30 years ago I suffered under the teachings of Bill Gothard by my employer.  He was a pastor who started a Christian school and half way through my first year employed as a school teacher he attended a Basic youth Conflict Seminar and decided to make my life miserable.
 

Now as a mature adult looking back I see that the principles we not all that unbiblical, what I think it that those who have "controll" issues can take a good principle and misuse it.  I think that is where the real danger is. It gives someone, like this pastor/principle who had control issues to begin with "permission" to abuse others.  

I would like to know if any of you know of families that are into ATI and the entire homeschooling lifestyle have children that mature and come out wonderful Christians unhurt.  I see the Duggar family on the Discovery shows and think this is a "happy" family and pray that all 16 children grow up loving the Lord and wanting to serve Him with all of the hearts.  I pray that the daily "wisdom" lessons they learn will equip them to grow up in the wisdom of the Lord.

[encourager]

I don't know of the original families that have been brought up in ATI. All I know is the ones that I have encountered through my sister's friends. My sister was homeshooled, but not through ATI. She has grown up just fine. She had some friends who had been brought up in the ATI homeschool that turned out ok, but some did not.
I believe it is possible to embrace the good things about Bill Gothard and the homeschool curriculum and like you said to do it in the context of a loving home. The problem, however, is when you go to the homeschool rallies and conferences for ATI that they may strongly persuade you to do things strictly their way. There are many who go into ATI and think they can pick and choose the way they want to do things, but end up getting indoctrinated into their mold of things. There are those who choose to do everything according to the pattern and some who don't. I know of a family that used to attend my church who didn't follow everything according to the model and things seem to work out fine. There seems to be a lot of peer presure because of the legalistic flavor of the program to have everyone be on the same page. Conformity seems to be a big thing. If you have read the forum on the spiritual abuse side of ATI this usually happens at the training camps. They are like boot camps where they require total unquestioned obedience of the students. As far as on a individual home level I don't think you get quite as much as that. I guess the question is how much envolved with the program do you want to be envolved, and do you have control over it? Maybe I should let someone who has been there answer my question.

Question: Are there any parents out there that can share if it is possible to be in the ATI homeschool program and just pick and choose the good things, without being pressured to implement the bad things?

[Suzanne]

I belong to two rather large Christian homeschool groups and none of them follow ATI.  I live in Phoenix, Arizona.  I think they had a basic youth conflict course in the 70's so Bill's teaching has reached this state but it seems that ATI and the homeschooling bunch is not in this state, at least not that I know of. We have at our convention center a homeschool Christian conference which has at least 2 thousand attend each year with many venders and I have never seen anything ATI at any of these conferences.  Is this group of people only in a few states?  I wonder why I do not see any of them in Arizona.  Can you explain this?

[Christopher]

My sister worked in close consort with Gothard for several years at one of the Institute's "Training Centers". I regret that her experience of Gothard's society was nothing like Ms. Rohlin's. It is not my place to detail her experiences - she did not share them with me until years later - but I wanted to point out that Ms. Rohlin's opinion of Gothard's personal presence is not universal.

I will add only that my sister has an extremely generous nature and does not speak ill of anyone very easily.

[Anonymous]

I thought I'd stick my head in and mention I've met Melody Rohlin several times, teaching CI and singing in a homeschool choir in which several Rohlins are involved. Trust me, if a Rohlin has a negative experience in an IBLP function, they'll forget it instantly. They're pretty hardcore ATI.

[Tina]

I think we have to be careful what we say about the man's character/integrity. I mean look at the sex scandals, etc. that rocked the ministry numerous times. That does say something about someone....and I couldn't quite say it was good!

[VeganHunter]

I read from someone who is from one of the 102 original families and it appears her experience was not all that positive.  Do you think most of those from 102 now are away from their teachings or are their second and 3rd generations that are living this lifestyle that he promotes?

My family was in the original 102.  "Away from these teachings", yes and no.  While I look like I'm 'out of the fold,' there are ethics and values that don't fall away when one cuts one's hair and slips into jeans.  #3, #6 and I are the only one's I'd say have fundamentally re-evaluated the theology with which we were raised.  #2's image is very line with Gothard's teachings (she married a pastor and is homeschooling her kids), but she's one of the coldest and most self-absorbed people I know.  I'll be interested in how her kids turn out.  She seems to treat them like robots. (Gothard? check!) #4 goes to a moderately fundamentalist church - no pressure to home-school, and the church/faith thing seems to be mostly a social/structure/show thing for her (consistent with one aspect of Gothard's walk, if not his explicit teachings).  #5 was for years the perfect child, then woke up and saw she was just being used.  Not sure where she'll end up when she's healed. #7 converted to Catholicism and is a healthy feminist.  #8 is now on a missions trip - too soon to know what she'll choose.  #s 9-11 still live at home.  

I don't have any direct contact with other families from that time, but I'm pretty sure all the Williams kids (IL) stayed in the fold.  Just googled one of them, and this (scroll down to birth announcement) seems to support that supposition.  At one point, my mother had a long conversation with Sharon Williams about her (my mom's) frustrations with the conflict between her kids' interests and the lack of academic support from ATI.  Sharon reportedly replied that she didn't have to worry about that, since none of her kids were particularly ambitious or talented, just nice kids happy to live a good life and work at IBLP.  They were all very sociable, fun-loving, connected people, the embodiment of Midwestern wholesomeness.  Who would ever leave that warm, fuzzy insularity?

It's important to look at backgrounds overall when evaluating why people go or stay.  If you were really happy while in ATI, you'd be likely to stay, wouldn't you?  And your comfort level would have been determined in large part by a lot of things not directly related to ATI.  My father found a lot of ATI families "worldly", but it's the "worldly" families who seem to have the best retainment rates.  Further, parents' own needs influence how kids develop.  All of their "not of this world" sermons notwithstanding, my parents NEEDED me to go to college where I did.  Suddenly they had the perfect defense against criticism.  #7 told me last year that our parents only mention my college and hers - the Bible and state colleges their other kids attended aren't useful for their purposes.  

[smugsmilz]

Ill take a sex scandal over thousands of emotionally damaged children who were raised in Gothardism.

A sex scandal effects those directly involved and their immediate loved ones the most and most of Christianity will move on past it.

However, Gothard has promoted and refused to address serious doctrinal issues in his programs that have created heartache for so many people and it continues.

I dunno that there is a 'lesser sin' but Ill take the sex scandal over blatant deception any day.

[ChristFollower]

I thought I'd stick my head in and mention I've met Melody Rohlin several times, teaching CI and singing in a homeschool choir in which several Rohlins are involved. Trust me, if a Rohlin has a negative experience in an IBLP function, they'll forget it instantly. They're pretty hardcore ATI.

Let me just say that I know Melody Rohlin personally as well--in fact, I also have taught some CIs with her, and sung in the homeschool choir. I have known the Rohlins for many years, and yes, while they are in ATI, I would by no means say that they are "hardcore." In fact, I happen to know that there are several things where they do not agree with Mr. Gothard, but they do agree with him that all teaching should be based on Scripture--thus the reason that they use the ATI curriculum. And, I must ask, does not the Bible confirm this belief? 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says that "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

Also, Melody herself has related to me several times where she strongly disagreed with Mr. Gothard on different things, but whenever she told me this, she was always careful to say, "But, he is only a man, and no one knows Scripture perfectly, save the Lord of Scripture. I just respect his heart attitude of wanting to do what he sincerely feels to be the Lord's will." And, just f.y.i., Melody is married now (to someone not raised in ATI), and most who could see her now would not consider her "hardcore ATI," as she has ceased to wear only skirts and now wears pants as well (but still in a modest way as instructed by Scripture). While she still holds true to her faith, and still strongly believes in many of the teachings of ATI, she tries to rely solely on Scripture for her guide. She has told me many times that she is saddened by the many young men and women who have drifted from their faith and from Scripture's teachings and then blame it on ATI. She and I both believe that it is due to the parents enforcing rules, instead of explaining the principles behind a way of life.

But, no matter what Mr. Gothard or Melody says, we must be like the Bereans (Acts 17:10-11), and daily search what GOD says about something. He alone has the final Word. Also, I have come to realize that no matter the faults of a person, I must and cannot judge them--for to do so is to judge and condemn myself.

"Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way" (Romans 14:13).
"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?" (Mathew 7:1-3).
"Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment" (John 7:24).

May God grant each of us the grace and the wisdom to live as HE (not any one else) would have us to live.