Courtship/Dating

[Anonymous]

Controlling parents love "courtship" and teachings such as these.
Courtship doesn't mean no broken hearts, as promised.
Courtship is not the answer - it's all about a relationship built on Christ, not built on who your parents picked out for you. It's not about the do's and don'ts, it's about God's Word...and there is nothing in there about courtship. Look how bad it turned out for Issac and Rebecca that was due to he and she not being the initiators in their relationship - Institute use to use them as an "example" - which I never could understand since their's was a sad marriage of lying and deceit.
Parents picking out partners for their children is sick and has become all too common in the conservative homeschooling movement. If these same parents had had their partners picked out by their parents, they may feel differently.
For those of us whose parents dated and wished they hadn't been involved so much before marriage and now carry guilt, who then turned and fell in the other ditch of pre-designing their children's relationships, maybe it's our generation who needs to be a little more balanced and give our kids a chance  - like maybe encourage them in a true relationship with Jesus by us walking the walk and not just talking the talk, and trust HIm to water that seed in order for them to make wise relationship decisions on their own as they get older. If you are teaching your kids the Word of God, and not preaching the issues, then you are wasting your breath and time if you then turn around and  tell them later that only you as the parent can possibly know what is best for them. Maybe us ex-ATIers need to get a vision for being responsible to lead our kids to Christ and not to all the issues and leave the rest up to Him. Just some food for thought.

[Andy]

Some good points Anonymous Guest.  Some parents do not want their kids to mess up in dating.  But that is how we learn.  Parents should guide their kids (of course).

According to Wikipedia:

" In 1 Kings 3:5-14 there is written an account of an encounter between the newly crowned Solomon and the God of the Kingdom of Israel in which he offers Solomon anything he pleases. Solomon asks for "an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?" Pleased with his non-materialistic wish God tells him that not only will he receive a foundation in epistemology greater than any other man, but also great wealth, power and prosperity.

The idea that Solomon's Wisdom is God-given is very important to various Judeo-Christian beliefs. The biblical Book of Proverbs, written by Solomon, is a dogmatic guideline for morality and manners in many Jewish and Christian denominations

The first half of his reign was, however, by far the brighter and more prosperous; the latter half was clouded by the idolatries into which he fell, mainly, according to the scribes, from his intermarriages. According to 1 Kings 11:4, he had 700 wives and 300 concubines."

Wow.  Holy cow.  Solomon had a wisdom greater than any other man bestowed by God Himself.  Then he has 700 wives & 300 concubines?  

I will not attempt to fully understand, nor fully explain this, other than what the Bible says.  And one cannot blame the hundreds of women from different faiths that Solomon was involved with.  It appears that Solomon strayed from his faith due to many influences obviously.  So, although God Himself had bestowed on Solomon wisdom greater than any other man, Solomon still strayed from the God that ingratiated him with this.  

So, the wisest man who ever lived, (at least until that time), had at least 700 women.  

Hmmm.  

Like I said, I am not, (Dr. Phil, thank God, nor), a Bible scholar.  And we do not live under this old law--we live under grace.  Hence, the New Testament.  

Nonetheless, it is in the Bible.  

With all said, it is interesting, that with all this wisdom, Solomon did not choose one woman.

And with all of this wisdom from God, Solomon did not immediately feel compelled by the Spirit to seek out the, "one."  With all this wisdom he did not immediately, nor ever, attempt to find his, "soul mate."

In fact, according to the Holy Bible, he did just the opposite.  


     


 

[encourager]

Over half my life has been wasted because of this junk. My parents were not out to control who I date. But most of the gals I have been interested in, however, have come from this background. I don't think there is ever a chance of me finding a marriage partner now that I am 40 years old. I don't expect the young ones to be attracted to me, nor do I want to bother with someone who has already been married and has kids. Most of them are bitter and closed up anyway.
The distrust is thick amongst Christian singles. They don't allow you to even get aquainted. There is too much restrictions in church culture as it is regarding guy / girl friendships and relationships. This courtship junk takes the cake and is the worst of all the tools used in the church to keep positive friendships from happening. By overly cautious parents trying to protect their adult son and daughters from making mistakes, they are actually setting them up to fall. They are going to end up trying to escape, like a fugitive escaping from prison, to get hooked up with someone of the opposite sex. The person they get hooked up with is not always positive.
My sister had friends that had chosen to sleep with their boyfriends just to escape this prison. I do not agree with what they did, but if there is no way out, what can you do? You almost have to be immoral to escape this prison, and many do. Some of the gals I was interested in had to do the same. They could not be friends with me, so they went with someone who dared to cross the line and got them in trouble.
I hate church culture as it is when it comes to singles, but this courtship stuff makes me furious! It does not work in a day in age where most people date and choose their own partners. How do you know if you are going to love the person if your parents choose your partner for you.

[Andy]

To encourager:

Your last post has much meaning.  Apparently the whole church thing isn't working on the relationship side.  (What has the church thing worked on much anything for that matter ??)

I grew up in a truly gigantic church in one of the largest churches in the U.S.  As a young man, & after years of IBLP & ATI, I prayed & searched truly from my heart to find, "the one," that God wanted me to be with.  Years passed.  (My parents never really tried in earnest to appoint me a girl either, although they gave it a few tries).  I was very involved in my church, and chose to remain abstinate.  

Nothing.  Not even close to a Godly woman.  I had a beautiful girlfriend for a while I met at church.  Tried everything to help her reach my, "great depth of spirituality."  Not happening.  (And I was extremely sincere).

I spent much time in the word, praying, meditating, etc.  Quietly living as I had been directed.  (Basically a really good, highly ignorant kid who engaged in very few normal social activities because these were, “evil”).  A few church parents loved me & told me how I was so mature &, “wise beyond my years, blah, blah.”  I thought I was pretty special too.

However, looking back now, I realize, just as many parents wondered what in the hell was wrong with me.  Some actually nicely questioned my mother about it.  Those were the ones I knew about.  My uncle actually confronted my mother about it.  He knew I was going to be messed up & apparently openly questioned her about it.  So much so that it scared her to the point she actually mentioned it to me.  For the first time, (apparently), someone had, (to some degree), seriously questioned my mother as to the obvious delusional state I was in.  It scared her just briefly, for a moment, out of her own highly deluded state.  I only wish someone had done a great deal more.    

As I grew into my late teens, and I actually allowed myself to pull the covers from my face just a little until my eyes were peeking out, & actually think for myself, I discovered a reality that was not pleasant.

I looked at my youth group, for the first time, for what they indeed were.  Just a bunch of kids not really too sincere about anything.  Just playing along.  Going to church camps & IBLP, & getting all excited about God, & speaking in front of the church body about how fired up they were, & how everything was going to be different, blah blah blah.

Then, within a few weeks, everyone was back to their old selves.  

Nice.

But the youth ministers had earned their money—at least they did their best to convince the parents.  

Then the cycle would repeat the next year.

Nice.  

I remember the last church camp I went to.  One of the, “elder,” youth ministers was, “eagerly, recruiting,” those of us in the youth group to attend this camp.  I was still in my deluded state, well toward the end of it, but still quite deluded.  This youth minister did not confront me, he cornered me one on one & asked me if I was going to attend the summer camp.  He was all hyped up, and asked me if I was going.  I’m not sure how I responded.  I think something like, “Uh, I don’t know.”  He immediately responded, “So, you think your life is right with Christ !!!!!  So your walk with God is perfect?!!!!  Blah, blah, blah, b.s., etc”

No, my walk was not perfect.  So in my deluded state, and for the very last time, I went to one of these church camps.  

Same people.  Same cycle.  Ridiculous.

Then some of the hyped up kids would get in front of the church to tell everyone how their sinful ways had changed, and they were going to stop being fake, and how they were actually going to study the Bible & pray, etc., blah, blah, b.s., blah, blah. …………

Three weeks later, everyone was back to the same old game.

The whole thing—just all messed up.

What to do.

My suggestion is to move away from the church in searching for someone.  40 is the new 30—not a big deal.  There are plenty of women who have no problem with this at all.  But if you stay in the same little, recycled group, there is indeed, little hope for much of anything.   I cannot even imagine trying to do that.

There is much more I can give my opinion on with all of this, but I am getting off topic.  You mentioned over half your life has been wasted with this junk.  My entire youth and early adulthood was wasted with this b.s. as well.  The best thing I ever did was to move far away from it.  I only wish I had done so much, much earlier.  
 



 

[Semirrahge]

The "point" of courtship is for parents to encourage their sons and daughters into cautious, marriage-oriented relationships. I see nothing wrong with that - but the fundamentalist legalism blows everything into an extreme and THAT'S where it gets out of hand.

It's possible to be Christian and date, even date non-Christians. Like many young guys in IBLP and other fundie organisations, I struggled for years with the 'sin' of lust and pornography. I still think lust is wrong, and pr0n is destructive - but I no longer obsess about it.
As I've matured I realise that in my teenage years I was a sex addict, and this realisation has shown me clearly what happened.
When I stopped living in fear of my inability to live up to my concept of holiness and just accepted that sex was a natural part of being human, designed to be enjoyable and normal, I began to gain some stability.
Once I took the final step, and started dating casually, reality hit like a brick wall: dating isn't some huge deal. It's not important. It's just a part of modern social interaction.
It's not wrong for girls to like guys and vice versa. Crushes are not proof of some spiritual failure - they're proof of our humanity. As humans are made in the image of God, humanity is a beautiful thing.
Dating and relationships are not important. Those things, like wearing clothes and driving cars, are merely actions. What IS important is what you DO with those actions. What is the attitude behind them?
I'll attempt to not ramble too far and try and wrap this up succinctly. (Ha! I hear the scoffers sneer... *grin*)

I think it is important to change our attitudes towards dating and relationships with the opposite sex. I am not advocating rushing out and randomly dating whoever you find yourself attracted to. That's equally as bad and you'll just end up with more mess on your hands than you ever dreamed of.
Every step out towards freedom must be made cautiously and carefully, with deep examination of yourself and the Word of God. Obviously I'm speaking to Christians here - but I think these general principles apply to all people, regardless of religious orientation.
I think I'm not the only one who can benefit from standing on your own faith and stepping out boldy upon that - whatever it is, dating or no. Just ensure it is YOUR opinion, YOUR belief and not merely what you were taught.

[encourager]

This courtship/dating issue is not just a Bill Gothard thing. It is being discussed in other Christian circles as well. The question I have is: "Is regulating friendships and relationships between guys and gals the answer the problems?" I believe the answer is no! From what I have said in the forum on Gothards Subculture and Adapting to the Real Culture this type of strict aproach to regulating relationships is very damaging. The girls especially get emotionally damaged by this. Girls need affection. It gets even worse if their fathers never give them affection. Where is the girl going to find affection from a male figure if she doesn't get it in the home? Well, she is going to go to the streets to get it. Parents are losing their daughters left and right because they were too controlling in the area of guy/girl friendships. By trying to be too overly protective they end up losing their daughters to the world. The girls get sexually wild and lose their innocence fast. I believe this is caused from the emotional damage and woundedness by an abusive system such as this. Now that doesn't mean that the sin is justified, but it does mean we should ask the question: "What are we doing wrong?" or "What is the root cause of this?" Many within the system will say it is the girl's fault because she didn't stay under the umbrella of protection, but it could be that the umbrella of protection is no protection at all.
Guys are effected by this as well. Like I said in the forum on Gothard's subculture, guys are taught not to pursue girls. They end up being passive whimps. There are many guys that are tired of fighting the system. If everytime you get an interest in a gal ends up being a confrontation with a controlling father what do you expect?
Every interest in the opposite sex seems to be wrong. What is the signal you get: That friendships with the opposite gender is sin. What nonsense! Gothard's system is sending the clear message that any pursuit of a friendship with the opposite sex is sin. This is the most disgusting, psychologically damaging thing I have ever heard! Why would he create male and female if it was a sin for us to interact with each other? Why would Jesus talk with a Samaritan woman at the well? So, are we suppose to have permission from our parents to be friends with the opposite gender? Did Jesus have to have permission from his parents to minister to women? This is just crazy!

On a personal note: The damaging effects of this teaching is long lasting. I have been personally effected by this in various churches and other Christian environments where the courtship model is promoted. I have been made to feel guilty for no reason at all. These prohibitions are not spelled out in Scripture. I have had a very difficult time building frienships will girls because of the restrictive structure and walls that this sort of thing builds. It is a sturcture built on distrust and fear, and has no business being in the body of Christ. We are taught to love one another, not to distrust one another. As a result of the distrust and walls that the church culture builds, I have no choice but to look for a girl friendship outside the church environment. It is sad that it has to be this way.

[Anonymous]

I have read a lot about this lately--I grew up side by side with homeschooling Gothardites, but my parents were "liberal" in comparison and I was free to do whatever I wanted as an adult.  I'm married and quite happy.

Anyway--2 things.  First, to 'encourager' who thinks he'll never marry now that he's 40--let me encourage you--NO way should you give up.  My husband and I got married and I am his first and only wife and he's 24 years older than me, got married at 51.  You never know when you'll meet your mate.

2nd, I read the article linked by the "daddy's girl" and I'm so disturbed.  Jesus preached that he came to free us from the law yet these legalistic people almost exclusively quote and twist the OT.  NUMBERS?  Who takes their daily life application from NUMBERS?!  Try reading the NT people!  And these poor, in my opinion, abused women are supposed to go from only father's authority to only husbands and because God "allegedly" set it up and they don't need to go directly to God for anything?  So how are they ever going to see the real truth and freedom of grace--if they explore it will they be condemned for the sin of rebellion and insolence?

Also, what if they don't have a dad--not everyone does, they die, they leave, etc.  Is this girl just screwed?

[encourager]

Thanks, for the encouragement. I find it very hard to connect with the opposite sex. When I try it seems like I get treated like an intruder or trespasser. Trust is very hard to establish. Maybe if I had grown up in the decade of the 50's I would have had more of a chance to establish friends, because people were more trusting back then. Nowdays, it seems impossible. I know that with God all things are possible. God usually doesn't force people or manipulate people to like each other. It has to happen naturally.

Another thing. The whole thing about age differences seems to be a big issue in our culture. Even Dobson says it is not good to marry someone of extreme age differences. It gets looked down upon in church culture especially. I don't know why? It is not mentioned in Scripture as being wrong. I see nothing in Scripture that says it is wrong to marry someone over 10 years apart. This is just another one of those silly things in church culture.
The last girl I tried to be friends with at my church was 15 years younger than me. I am sure there were people discouraging her from being friends with me.

[floydian7]

Hey, I agree, don't give up.  My father didn't marry until he was 39.  Mom was 29.  It was a first marriage for both.  They had me five years later  Yeah, I'm one of those miracle babies.  I was born by c-section and the docs told Mom that they could not see how on earth she got pregnant because she had so much scar tissue from endometriosis.  They couldn't figure out how I implanted.
There are lots of girls out there who are over 30 who would love to find a decent guy.  I have three friends, no actually four, who didn't marry until they were over 35.  If you give up, you may be denying some great girl the opportunity to be married and someone like me  the opportunity to be born.  The last friend married my cousin and they finally had their own miracle baby after five hopeless years of marriage and lots of specialists.  They gave up, got pregnant, and give glory to God for their son.  
Age probably matters some, but don't rule anyone out because of her age.  And if you want to use a Biblical example, Jacob was 75 when he married Leah.  If you do the math, yes, he was 75.  Now, I don't suggest you wait that long, but hey, Jacob did...but then his family life wasn't that great was it!  Hmmm. Maybe you should find another Biblical example.  Boaz and Ruth.  There is a good one.  He was much older.  And if he had not married Ruth, Jesus wouldn't be here.  
There, I've rambled enough.  
Floydian

[Melissa]

Hey encourager,
I'm curious--what kinds of church culture have you been exposed to?  Not all churches are steeped in Gothardism and hyperconservative fundamentalism.  A healthy Christian community wouldn't discourage male/female friendships.

 

[encourager]

I have not been in one of these churches that is totally Gothardized, thank God. I go to a Foursquare church. It is more pentecostal. I like the worship and the preaching of the Word is very good. The only set back with my church is that there aren't any singles. I have been told to maybe go to a different church to meet someone, but I just don't feel right about going to another church right now.

Most of my bad experiences running into the influence of Gothardism has been at the Bible college I attended up in Canada called, Praire Bible Institute. They are not strict anymore, but back when I was attending they were just in the transistion period of getting rid of the old rules and taboos. My first year I was even asked on the application if I had a girlfriend back home. I was thinking to myself, "What business is it there's if I have a girlfriend back home!" They regulated relationships there at the school, which I thought was the craziest thing I ever saw. The first year I attended the college I was pulled aside by an RA assitant and scolded for looking at the girls. I was lectured for hanging around a certain girl too much the following year. The third year I was put on somewhat a probation and told not to see a certian girl again. The problem was is that I had an interest in her, but her parents did not want her to see me.  I was not to talk to her for the rest of the year. That hurt alot. I got the picture very clearly that being friends with girls is wrong.

I also have run into ATI allumni because my sister's friends. My sister went through homeschool. Many of her friends were not allowed to date even after they were 21 years of age. There was only one out of the four girls that my sister knew that had an arranged marriage. The other three went off the deep end and got envolved with the wrong crowd. One got pregnant out of wedlock and was forced to get married. The guy was a total loser and ended up leaving her anyway.

I have had a mother of one of my sister's friends that tried to set me up with someone's daughter that they knew, but it just didn't seem right. It is so weird when you run across this kind of stuff. I am not saying I didn't like the girl. I just didn't like the idea of her parents arranging things for her. It wasn't the parents of the daughter. I had to make corrections. I never did get to meet the parents. It might have been an entirely different situation if I did.

As far as the church I am in now there is hardly anyone who knows about Bill Gothard now. Five years ago there were two families that were part of the ATI homeschool. The son of one of the families rebelled and went crazy, and the other family had a beautiful daughter that went off the deep end and went wild. I liked her, she was very pretty. It was too bad that things turned out the way they did. The son of the other family did come back to the faith. That family had two daughters. The two daughters turned out alright. I think the father was beginning to see the light and was not as controlling with them.

I have been exposed enough to Bill Gothard's ministry to know it is not a pretty picture. I feel sorry for those who have to still struggle through all these issues. The issue of courtship and arranged marriages seems to be a big one and gives parents way too much control over their adult sons and daughters.

I will add. Most of the restrictions I have now are those that I place on myself. I am not in a church that has that legalistic environment because I am in a church that allows the Holy Spirit to have his way. I have been in petecostal churches now for over 15 years and still act as if I am not allowed to be friends with girls. The whole thing is just crazy. Maybe I should look into getting counseling. Right now I cannot afford it. It is amazing though, how I can still live under the restrictions of the past and be in an environment that promotes freedom. I don't know if anyone else experiences this. It is kind of like jello, once the mold is taken away the jello stays in the same form. Even though I am not under the same rules as when I was younger, I still live as if I am still under those restrictions.

I guess the other thing to right now, is that there isn't any single gals at my church right now. Most attend the jumbo churches where they have events for singles. Even if I did attend one the larger churches I still would find it very hard to connect, because psychologically I am not free.

I wonder, what would have happened if I had gotten envolved with that gal that my sister's friend's mother was trying to arrange a match for me. I wonder how the parents of the gal felt when I did not respond. I just was too uncomfortable with a thing like that.

[encourager]

Another question I have regarding courtship and arranged marriages is:

Do these arranged marriages last or do they fall apart? I would gather if the parents of both the bride and the groom are still in the process of manipulating and conrolling every move they make that sooner or later there is going to be some serious conflict.

Is there anyone who has a sucess story of how an arranged marriage has worked?

[spitfire1979]

Encourager,

I think technically the idea is that after marriage, each couple is autonomous.  It seems obvious to me though, that after a lifetime of living under the thumb of the parents, with limited career options and a lack of social skills, the new couple will indeed be extremely dependent on the parents both emotionally and maybe even finacially.  The parents would keep track of their rate of reproduction, church attendance, child-rearing practices, etc.  Unless having the support of a loving spouse compels them to grow some (ah-hemmmm) confidence, how could an adult reared to be his/her parents' child forever find a way to diverge from their way of life?  Gothard may say , "oh, after marriage, your parents are there for counsel, not authority."  But look at us!  People who provide "life-giving" counsel ARE perceived to be authorities, and ATI training clearly conditions for that!  Why else would our parents have sunk their one chance to raise happy, complete individuals with Gothard's misguidance?  If there is anyone out there living within this system, tell me.... when you and your spouse make a decision that your parents don't agree with, do they respect your autonomy, or do they pull out a bunch of Bible verses to warn you about not listening to them?  

I recently watched a movie on IFC called "East Is East".  It told the story of a Pakistani family living in England in the 1970's.  The father was a traditional Pakistani Muslim who married an English woman and had 7 children with her.  He insisted that his children have arranged marriages within the Pakistani tradition, and the movie is basically about how this causes so much drama with the older boys.  The eldest runs away from his wedding and is completely rejected by the father.  When he finds two horribly ugly girls for his other sons to marry, he eventually gets shown that he can either have his family or hang onto the old ways.  He resorts to coersion and violence when challenged, which, in his country would be "OK".  It was a comical and  quite frustrating look into the lives of a culture I cannot understand because of its treatment of women and its insistance that because people might make mistakes in life, they must always follow tradition and the word of authority.  Sound familiar?  

The thing is, when I was still attending "girls' groups" within the ATI community, an older woman passed around an article by a Pakistani woman extolling the rightness of arranged marriage and how it is better to fall in love after marriage and trust your father's choice.  I smell something dark and organic here.  What country do we live in?  Sure there is a high divorce rate.  But it has nothing to do with WHO chooses the spouse.  It has to do with the individual decisions made by people getting married DURING the marriage.  To say that arranged marriage is fail-proof, you would have to ensure that there is no possibility for divorce except on pain of death, which, in most countries who use it by tradition, is surely the case.  

I think that there is a certain naivete about marriage running through the Gothard culture, espoused by the man himself.  Christian single people, especially those who have not had a relationship with the opposite sex, seem to have the idea that marriage is a prize.  It is what you get when you have all your ducks in a row and God deems you "worthy" to pass on to the next stage of approval... finding a perfect mate.  And since the mate is perfect, and you are perfected, you will marry at the perfect time and have the chance to have a perfect family--- if you keep all your ducks in a row and don't mess it up.  Maybe that's why non-marital dating relationships are prohibited--- because you will soon realize that no-one is perfect, not even you...if you keep your eyes and ears open and have any respect for yourself, you will learn fast.  Relationships are never perfect.  I won't even get into how this mentality objectifies both the husband and the wife and limits their ability to grow intimately (and by that I mean emotionally, not only in their sexuality.)   Courting and betrothal might GET you "God's seal of approval" in the Gothard world (the perfect mate found in the perfect way) but it doesn't tell you how to live humanly with each other.  You have a fight?  You get angry?  You are automatically in the wrong.  Surrender your rights.  Haaaaa!  When two human people partner up with any good intent, they know that the mark of a good relationship isn't how they get along swimmingly, but how they DON'T get along.  They have learned how to compromise, and that sometimes they also have to hold their ground.  Even if the person holding her ground is female.  If you can't put your heads together and come up with a logical solution to ease the tension, you still find a way to live together in peace and keep working at it.

I'm rambling now.... I guess I still have a lot of leftover steam from fearing that I was going to have to "court".  I am one of those who, for most of my formative years, saw marriage as the prize I would get when I was "perfectly" satisfied with God, perfectly feminine, perfectly submissive in every way, and it scared the crap out of me.  I owe my parents for letting it go, even though I still see signs that they wish the ideal could have been realized.  I guess they'd been married too long, however, to truly believe such myths...even though"God" seemed to be saying they were the real thing.    

[encourager]

Yeah, I think this whole thing of having to be mature before you get married is a bunch of bunk. You get mature through relationships. You sometimes can't see selfishness until you get around someone else. It takes hanging around someone else just to see how selfish I really am. Like you said, getting all your ducks in a row may never happen, especailly when it comes to favorable circumstances. When will I get married? When the gas prices come down? When I am able to afford my own house? Great! That time may never come! Whatever happened to plain simple trust in God. Sometimes it takes risk and stepping out for God to move on our behalf. That doesn't mean that "God helps those who help themselves." I think that Gothard's world is too much of avoiding risk. It is this little sheltered world. You don't want to take the risk of a broken heart so you have to let dad pick for you.

I wonder what they say about the arranged marriages that don't work?

Does Gothard teach that the groom needs to be financially well off or have his own house in order to get married?

[sidewinder]

I was never in IBLP myself but I had friends who were in it. There was this one who was my girlfriend when I was in my early teens and over time, her family developed rather strict rules regarding who she socialized with. My relationship was somewhat in secret since I was more liberal than she but eventually she told me that she could not continue the relationship. She said that since her parents knew nothing (as far as we knew) of our previous relationship, we could continue as just friends. If her parents did know that we were close, then she would have to shun me completely as retribution for "tainting" her. That would have been logistically impossible since both our families were next door neighbors and did a lot of activities in common. Eventually, my ex-girlfriend and I settled on a casual relationship.
It seems that she wasn't supposed to have feelings for anyone at all unless she planned to marry that one. We were both just fifteen at the time. I am quite sure most people cycle through a few people before you settle on one but to say that you aren't even supposed to have feelings for anyone is unrealistic.
This was about eight years ago. My ex's family has since become ever more cocooned into IBLP and ATI. The Ex is now living at her parents' home helping to raise her other siblings so she can practice being a godly homemaker. It's sad that she once had worldly ambitions like wanting to attend nursing school and maybe work as an artist (she is quite artistic). She has been indoctrinated into believing that being a homemaker is the only allowable profession. While some women, like some men, are not all that capable and could easily adapt to a narrow role, this is not the case with my ex. Still, at least on the outside, she seems to have fully hardened in believing the ideas that have been drilled into her. Speaking to her about going to college, maybe even moving out of her parents' house is like trying to talk a nun into snorting cocaine. She apologetically declines any conversation thread about living life any other way. So, she just waits for the perfect man to come along and take her away so she can a be Mrs. Godly Homemaker.
I have known many other families involved in ATI who similarly repressed career desires in their girls. It seems that my family was one of the few in our homeschooling circle who wasn't in ATI. I did however see how people in ATI lived. The mindset of many involved is the same as those in cults. Anything that deviates from their teachings is false, so they automatically reject it. Sorry for the long post. It's my first one and I didn't quite know where to put it.